The accusations of sexual abuse made against actor Armie Hammer came as a huge shock to the denizens of Hollywood; and the exact nature of the alleged abuse left many people disgusted. Armie was accused of sexual assault, violence and even having cannibalistic fantasies. Predictably, his career came to a screeching halt as an investigation was launched.
However, it has since come to light that due to insufficient evidence, authorities have declined to charge him with any crime, and in doing so, thrown cold water on the stories that led to his downfall. In this candid interview, Piers Morgan questions Armie on everything that happened to him. They discuss what’s true and not true, how the experience affected Armie’s young family, and if he can cobble together the remnants of his life into something resembling a career.
Let’s, first of all address that elephant in the room. Are you a cannibal? You know what you have to do to be a cannibal, but the reason they would believe it is because you said it I’m 100 % a cannibal. You ever eaten any human flesh, not a question.
I’d never thought I’d have to answer by the way, how many women were there. From that point 500 sure this was a very intense, very sexually charged between two people. Different people have different sexual fantasy, but I don’t think that’s any different than when someone looks at a baby and goes oh, my god, at those cute little fat legs. I just want to eat you up.
She quoted you as saying grabbed a knife held it to your throat raped you all everything else seemed boring. You crying and screaming me standing over you, I felt like a god, pretty devastating to read that. Are they true? I don’t remember saying those things they could be true.
None of those people were hurt or upset because I pushed any sexual boundaries. Are you sure, are you sure about? Did you brand the tip of a small knife, a knife yeah there wasn’t even blood, I’m not easily shocked, I’m a little bit shocked by that. I thought I was untouchable and boy was I wrong.
I couldn’t be alone with my child. At the time. Did you ever feel like ending it all yeah army hammer had it all money looks charm an ever advancing career as a hollywood leading man, but in 2021 it all came crashing down.
A series of women accused him of being a sexually abusive manipulator, even by his own words, a cannibal. He said, I’m 100 % a cannibal, I’m freaking out. It was all he wanted ever talk about.
You get a note that says I’m going to bite the out of you and he just like acted mad. This cancellation was immediate and total. An army hammer has not faced any criminal charges despite a multiyear police investigation.
Now, 3 years after his world collapsed, he’s ready to face the world and go unsensed. He joins me now in the studio well army, it’s good to meet you um. Obviously I followed your career, I mean the thing.
I remember you most vividly for because I was an america working at the time was social network and this massive hit movie and you play both the winkl voss twins, who were involved in the battle with mark zuckerberg. It was a brilliant part. You played it superbly, you got lorded for it, you w awards, for it um and from you know, from that to working with leo dicaprio with julia roberts.
You people were talking about you as the next george clooney, the next great hollywood leading man, maybe the next james bond, and it was legitimate praise. You know: you’re superb actor at the top of your game and it was all going the right way. I want to transport you if you can back to your mindset, then what did all that acclaim and attention duty um well. Thank you.
First of all, and thanks for having me it’s good to talk to you as well um, it was a wild time. I think that there was opportunities and successes that I wasn’t necessarily prepared for, and I didn’t know how to handle or deal with um. So, on the surface, while everything might have looked just like pure glitz and and glamour uh behind the scenes, it was, it was honestly kind of like uh, nervewracking and terrifying, a lot of it, and it’s a lot of pressure and pressure that I didn’t really know How to deal with and a lot of it I didn’t deal with very well.
You dealt with it in a pretty time: moded fashion for hollywood, uh a lot of drink, a lot of drugs, a lot of women yeah um. Did you realize, as you were, going down that road that it’s a pretty perilous path, uh with a lot of bodies littered at the end of it? No, no! I think at the time that was the last thing from my mind and and by the way, if any of those thoughts would have popped into my head, I would have just assumed it was my own neurosis and the answer to that would be another drink or More drugs or you know, seeking comfort in another person which I had become incredibly adept at and uh. You know i. I think I never had those moments or those thoughts until everything came crashing down at the height of your partying from one of a all encompassing phrase.
How hard were you partying? I mean told me through a big night out with army hammer. I mean you know. I i definitely don’t want to sound like I’m glamorizing, but like I was really good at it.
Uh all. My friends called me the water buffalo, because whatever they would drink, I would drink all of that and more whatever drugs they were doing. I would take all of that and more and when they were done or tapped out I’d, move on to the next group of people and go all right.
Well, what are we getting into guys like it? Just what would you drink? Oh uh, I mean you know it would be a 78 martini dinner and then you know keep going from there with what. What do you mean with what other drinks? Oh whatever you had, the answer was yes, literally anything literally anything, and the answer was always yes and what else and what drugs did you take? I mean, what did you have it? I i I wasn’t. I wasn’t cocaine, presumably the hollywood druger choice, yeah yeah. Oh sure there was cocaine involved, there was stim, other stimulants, sure sure ecstasy did you ever get into injecting anything.
No, no! I you relieved. You never took that leap because that’s the one that often kills people yeah. I it just it that was never a draw for me. I never I never.
Fortunately I never got to the point where taking drugs more recreationally wasn’t enough uh. I think I was acted upon by an outside force. Were you addicted to any one of those things or were you addicted to parting? I would say I was addicted to escapism that that I was addicted to anything that would get me out of myself.
I felt such a deep sense of discomfort in my own body. Why I mean look, I no, I mean look, I’m looking at a guy who should not be feeling uncomfortable about his body, yeah right, you’re, a very handsome guy, you’re, very charming I’ve seen interviews with you before it all blew up um, I’m looking at you now Thinking why would you feel discomforted by your by who you are by your body? Maybe there is some something to the idea that no one would assume it or people wouldn’t accept you to feel that way that lend itself to you feeling even more that way. You know, oh well, you you, you have everything in the world, you should be fine, so we’re not worried about you like pick yourself up by your own bootstraps kind of thing, but everybody needs help. I i don’t think, but what were you escaping from? I had you know i, for probably a myriad of reasons.
Um I had the inab ability to make myself feel okay unless there was something else doing it for me. I didn’t know how to I mean I don’t want to sound like I’m on the couch and therapy here, but I didn’t know how to love myself. I didn’t know how to accept myself. I didn’t know how to be okay in my own skin.
These were never anything that I was taught and I don’t think any of us really are that’s. Why therapy is such a huge industry there’ll, be some people who will say: oh, come off it army, you were living the higher life of a hollywood star, a classic story line right of the goodlooking smart, talking, charming guy who just wants to party all the time And that you can look back because things crashed and burned and say actually now I look back on it. I think I was running away escaping. I was feeling this: were you really feeling that at the time or do you think it’s an explanation that you can now look back on with more clarity? I think, like all things, it’s not black and white, I’m sure there’s a ven diagram of both of those things and the answer is found somewhere in the middle.
At the time did it just feel like? I was having a good time yeah some of the time yeah other times did it feel like I was so anxious and uncomfortable that I needed something yeah. I think both are true. It’s not necessarily a binary thing, a lot of people in your position at that age. They love, fame and also hate fame, sure that is actually in its way a very insidious drug.
Yes, and I would say, for many famous people – I’ve interviewed at stages of their careers, it’s one of the more destructive drugs. Actually, absolutely would you agree. Yeah um, because there’s aspects of fame that are to be perfectly honest, delightful.
What are what are the best things of being famous yeah? You can get a table at a restaurant when they’re full. You don’t have to wait in line for things. People give you free stuff clothes travel h.
People want to hang out with you, you become a popular kid. People want to sleep with you, people want to sleep with you, and people will sleep with you and people will sleep with you just because, and you know, even if they don’t necessarily want to in that whole period, yeah. How many women did you sleep with? You know I i was married for a a long portion of that and I was faithful for a long time in my marriage and I think that really saved me from going too far off the deep end.
You know for the first seven years of my marriage, which you know included, you know a year of engagement and and all that stuff I was monogamous. I i was faithful. I didn’t I didn’t cheat on my wife um made you finally cheap.
I think that I got to a point where I want to answer this really carefully. I think what happens in longterm relationships are the two people will grow constantly and if the people start to grow apart at first, it’s almost it’s it’s minuscule, it’s unrecognizable and it’s like a tanker ship going on the open sea, if they’re off by one degree for The first mile, you probably don’t notice five miles, you’re a little bit offshore, but you go 500 miles or a th000 miles. You lose side of each other and you’re in a fog bank and all of a sudden when you’re lost and you’ve lost your partner because you’re not checking in with each other, which is a twoway street. You can’t find that person again and I think that’s what.
Finally happened in my marriage. I think think you have two people who grow, which everyone will do, but they weren’t growing necessarily together and from that first moment that you took the decision to be unfaithful again I’ll. Ask the question not because I want to be pr.
I’m just curious about how bad this problem got for you, how many women were there from that point, probably more than the average person would be exposed to give me a ballpark. I would say you know I i I haven’t done. The math.
50. 100. 200.
500. Sure, maybe not 500, that’s that’s! That’s quite a bit, but many hundreds. I wouldn’t say many hundreds.
No, you know I would say enough. Yeah, I mean that’s a lot yeah. What do you feel about that now? Just on that point never mind the allegations which will come to, but what do you feel about if I look at how you were behaving sure? If I look at it as it pertains to me, I look at a guy who was really hurting needed. Something and didn’t have it within himself to give himself what he needed, so he was looking for that love or acceptance from other people, and that’s one way to look at it.
If I look at it in you know, in relation to the other people, I look at a bunch of people who were used like a drug to make someone feel better. It wasn’t even about those other people um, which kind of makes you a cad. If you will yeah, were you, were you very arrogant at the time? Would you say no, I you know I i don’t think I ever was arrogant, because I i think I lacked the sort of overinflated sense of ego or selfconfidence. I think there was a bit of an impostor syndrome at play as well, so it precluded me from ever being like I’m the greatest and you’re lucky to be with me.
I think I don’t think that was a part of it did it bring you any validation. Did it bring you any of the love that you were craving in short term? It it felt like it did. You know, but it wasn’t real. You know uh any more so than eating candy.
That’s really bad, for you makes you feel full, but then later makes you feel sick and you have cavities and you have to fix that. I mean it was a good year before the allegations first emerged that you and your wife announced you were going to get divorced. Did she know about this? Were you honest at that time about any of the infidelity or were the other reasons at the time that were the cause of the break? Yeah I mean infidelity was a key factor in our, and so she knew she knew you’d been unfaithful. Yes, I i told her that I was unfaithful.
What made you be honest in the end, I got to a point where I realized I was becoming someone that I didn’t recognize and didn’t want to be um and then I came clean to my wife at the time and told her what was going on and Did you did you tell her the scale of it at this point? It had only been one person right and it was the person who then ended up accusing me of rape that uh, that is the person who I had the first and only affair. At that time, on my wife, this is effie angelova yeah yeah. So she was the first person who I stepped outside of my marriage for and how did your wife react when you told her appropriately yeah lot of anger, a lot of betrayal um, a lot of hurt, a lot of pain which I caused.
You know I mean it. That’s that’s on me and did was that the catalyst for actually breaking up yeah yeah and we tried we tried working on our marriage for a while, after that, we spent a considerable amount of time in coup’s therapy and trying to work through our issues. And you know, as we continued to try to work through them, it just became clear that the damage had been done.
I had done the damage even as you’re telling me this. It looks to me like you’re feeling quite emotional about that moment. It was a dark time.
It was a dark, painful time, yeah, it was, and it’s it’s also something that I have to accept is on me like that’s. I had an affair on my wife. Obviously I’m not the first person in the history of hollywood.
To do that, but I did it and it’s less than becoming behavior that I have to own and take accountability for and – and I have to also own the pain that I caused. How do you get on with your wife now, I would say we’re very good. Coparents we’ve worked through a lot of stuff together, you know um, we are able to put our children first and foremost, and you know I would say that in a big way, bygones are bygones and it was a messy murky time and I think nobody puts their Best foot forward in those times and um, if you had your time again, would you have not succumbed to temptation? I you know the the succumbing to temptation thing is is interesting right because part of it is maybe I wanted out of a relationship that I wanted out of you know. U.
I had a therapist at one point during that call having an affair the coward’s way out. You know it’s like you wanted to end this relationship. You wanted to blow things up and do you think that’s the truth.
I think like we talked about before. I don’t think it’s necessarily binary, but I think that that did play a part in it in terms of the shades of gray of it all about of a year later january, the 12th 2021 before this woman and she was anonymous at the time it turned out To be effie angelova before she went on instagram and made all these lured allegations about you that day, do you remember that day before what were you doing? I was down in the cayman islands um I was there. I was.
I had gone down to the cayman islands to be with my kids um. My now ex was down there. My dad was living down there um, and so we went down there at the beginning of the pandemic.
Life was great because you had you had a lot of big roles: yeah uh, some you signed up to some you were looking to sign on to one of them was actually the leading role in the author, which was the robert evans story. Uh, you would have played al rdy uh. I love that series. It was a paramount plus series would have been a great role for you.
I think um life probably couldn’t have been professionally going any better for fe. Then it was. It was going to be my biggest year as an actor in terms of the amount of projects the caliber of projects. I thought I was untouchable.
I thought that you know this is the f. This is the biggest year. I’ve had I’m I’m now, I’m good. I’m going to be okay and boy.
Was I wrong? How did you find out about the instagram posts um? There had been threats from effie that had come before uh, and this is going back even farther. There were threats that she would reach out and tell me that she wanted to uh, kill herself like oh and it was it. How long has your affair been? We the actual affair, lasted 10 months uh and then it and then it ended uh.
But then you know there was sort of a lingering involvement, even though we never saw each other again. There was communication that went for another couple years and in the end, did you break it up? Did you do you think that was the catalyst for what then followed it’s hard for me to say what her motivation and and and why she did what she did um, but I don’t think that that helped had you lived in fear that she might go public. She I i remember when we were having our affair back in, I want to say 2017 or or whenever it was um.
There was a time where she threatened to tell my wife, and she said you know I just can’t live with the guilt of this anymore. You know this is so terrible what we’re doing, even though she knew I was married when she reached out to me. First, we had talked about my wife.
We had talked about the affair, but there was a time where she said: I’m I’m just going to have to tell your wife what we’re doing and um that was also one of the big motivators for me coming clean in this situation, because I just I it It just caused such an intense anxiety for me, so you get to this day, yeah january, the 12th. Do you recall exactly how you found out? I got a call I because, prior to that day, she had accused me of other things on social media. That was the day where she accused me of rape right, and that was the big word that was the you know record needle. I me what she said was you’d had a a fouryear affair.
She said with you j. She says you sent a graphic and violent texts about cannibalism, about rape fantasies, your desire to drink her blood. These messages began to leak out all over the internet across two days. Some of them and I’ll read just a three of them.
You just live to obey me and be my slave. You said her, I will own you, that’s my soul, my brain, my spirit, my body, would you come and be my property till you die if I wanted to cut off one of your toes and keep it with me in my pocket, so I always had a Piece of you in my possession uh I’m 100 % a cannibal. I want to eat you, that’s scary, to admit. I’ve never admitted that before it was that stuff, which obviously blew off around around america and around the world army hammer, I’m a cannibal in your own words right.
Let’s first of all address that elephant in the room. Are you a cannibal? No, you know what you have to do to be a cannibal. You have to have actually eaten someone so have have you ever eaten any human flesh. No, not a question.
I thought I’d ever ask him not a question. I’d ever thought. I’d have to answer by the way, but but no never what do you feel that a large sthe of the public just think army hammer is a cannibal. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you, but the reason they would believe it is because you said it sure I’m 100 % a cannibal and I think a lot of these things.
These text messages um, it’s it’s! So it’s this. This was a very intense affair, very sexually charged between two people with very similar proclivities and kinks, and any of those conversations that we had inside of that relationship when you take them outside of that context and put them into broad daylight. It doesn’t look so good.
It’s you know, and we’ve never seen what she was saying correct. I for a very good reason right, I’m going to come to to one of the other accusers. I have seen some of the two and throw there which puts a very different light actually on her claims, but in relation to to effie angelov, I guess look there were rape fantasies is your position that all of this was just roleplay, that it was. It may be offensive to people to hear about this and to read about it, but it’s kind of bdsm kinky sex roleplay.
It’s not actually meant to be taken seriously as you wanting to rape her or to be a cannibal. Is that your argument about the way? All this it’s it’s not only my argument, that’s the reality of the situation. You know, different people have different sexual fantasies yeah, you know and there’s a very broad spectrum of sexuality and people are allowed to engage with their own sexuality.
However, it fits them and what they do and if you find a partner who is amenable to these things or even excited about them. In my case, you know a lot of this. I was introduced to by effie um what it was her idea, yeah quite a bit of it yeah.
She she had more experience in this arena than I did, who first raised the concept of cannibalism as a role play. I i think that was just sort of like born out of a desire to sort of like I i want you so completely, and I i I want you so totally that it’s almost like. I want to eat you, but I don’t think that’s any different than when someone looks at a baby and goes. Oh, my god look at those cute little fat legs.
I just want to eat you up like it’s. You know there’s a part of the brain that controls cuteness aggression, we’re not going to have a headline army hammer. I want to eat babies right, preferably not, preferably not um, but um. You know, but it was all from your point of view.
This was all fantasy. Talk, albeit you were indulging in it, was all fun fantasy and it was and some of it sent. While I was sitting in a room by myself, you know inebriated whatever thinking like.
Oh this, oh I’ll, say this. This will be fun to say, you know, and you were both drinking and taking drugs through through throughout this period. Uh I mean I don’t want to speak to her, but um. I certainly was yeah.
The reason I ask is: is it possible that she believes you crossed a line legitimately believes that that you lost the kind of boundaries because of all the drugs and drink that you were taking, and that you could both be right that in your eyes, it was All consensual, fantasy roleplay and she was a very you – know – enthusiastic co coconspirator, if you like in it, but that actually there were times when, because you may have been out of it or whatever the boundaries were crossed, I mean: do you accept that’s even a possibility. I believe that that’s a possibility for her now. I think that there is a legitimate world in which she has convinced herself of these things, and I also know of after these sexual encounters that we had over those 10 months. I know that I received ex extremely graphic text messages from her, echoing the same sentiments that we talked about before and taking them even further.
Do you think if people saw the full context of all these messages, a very different light would be shed on them. It would immediately clear everything up. Yes, why don’t you just le them? Well, because I was having these messages on facebook messenger at the time, and I was a married man, so I had to cover my tracks so when messages would come in, I would respond and I would delete everything so that nothing would be sitting on my phone Um then, when I was under investigation for 2 and a half years by the lapd, we subpoenaed facebook multiple times uh for those messages because of the exculpatory nature of ever get them.
I did not personally get them because no charges were brought against me. I know that a sizable. I know that a sizable piece of all of those messages were sent to the lapd and I believe that’s why everything was dropped. But I don’t get access to those because there was no charges.
I’m going to come back to to el angel when there was a a more sinister development in that part of it, but on january the 14th. This is two days later: courtney vich, who was an app founder who dated you in 2020 or said she did from june to october 2020, told the new york post page six that you subjected her to emotional abuse, sexually coerced her and made her feel un safe And she repeated some of this in the documentary house of hammer about you. Let take a look.
He puts on this creepy playlist and just like, like it’s like the ropes, were around your neck, your wrist, your ankles, behind your back. It’s like it was, I mean I had bruises, I had I hated it first, have you ever watched that documentary? I watched part of the first episode. Have you seen that clip before uh? I don’t remember that clip.
What’s your response to what she was saying, I mean I think, first and foremost, I understand why that’s a compelling clip. You have a woman expressing unsafety and fear and all of those things I i I understand why that is a powerful clip um. I disagree with the nature of our relationship and how she described it. I i I will say this: there are people that I left um, who were hurt and who were upset uh.
None of those people were hurt or upset, because I put pushed any sexual boundaries that they weren’t interested in exploring or trying. Are you sure, are you sure about that? Well, let me ask you different way around. Can you be sure about that? I mean it can be that women we know this right.
I mean some women can go along with things sure because they’re in your thr and they want to keep you happy, but it may be at the same time they’re not really enjoying it at all. I mean there’s an aspect: Of that that I you look back in all this, do you accept? I mean if you were having, for instance, if I accept you, were having this relationship with with fe, for example, that was extreme in its nature in terms of the language you use and things you were doing. Is it possible that when you try to replicate some of that with somebody else, they might go along with it, but they might also feel pretty uncomfortable? Do you think that’s a possibility? I do I do, and I understand now the nature of the power dynamics of these relationships. Where, because of you know my position or my career or my notoriety or fame or whatever, you want to say that people might be inclined to go along with something that isn’t necessarily their bag of tea um.
I also know that in my sexual relationships with people I was very cognizant and very aware about presenting these are my desires. These are my kinks. If you will do any of these sound good to you and then they would say. Oh I like this and oh, we can try this.
I’ve never tried that. I have questions, but I’m not saying no – and I don’t like this or I don’t like this and then you say: okay great well, let’s move slowly through this. If this is anything you want to try, we can try them and we will make sure we do it safely and with communication and with healthy boundaries. If it’s nothing that you want to, try then great, we won’t do any of that.
How would how would a woman you have that conversation with? How would she express concern once you’d started? I would make sure that it was very clear that at any point whatever was going on could be stopped. How I i we had safe words, which is a very, very important part of bdsm. So what what were they orange was pause, meaning I feel a little overwhelmed, but I don’t necessarily want to stop. I just need a second and then red is.
I need this to stop immediately for those who don’t know what bdsm is, what is it? Uh bondage dominance, satto masochism, it’s the idea of sort of heightened sexual scenarios did when you were younger. Did you ever think you’d end up so sort of addicted to that kind of sexual behavior? I never thought I’d be on your show. Talking about it right.
That’s for sure which is not easy. I mean I do you know I i I do applaud you for facing the music about it’s not easy for someone in your position, who’s lost everything to come on and have to talk about this stuff sure you know it’s not something most men would enjoy talking About it’s a bit exposing it’s it’s yeah! It’s it’s a bit scary! Um. How do you feel having to talk about it? Honestly? Um? I don’t love it for the sake of my kids um.
I hate the idea that there’s any way their father’s sexuality or whatever. However, you want to say it could be weaponized against them by bullies or mean kids in school uh, but at the same time I’m have to come at it from a place of selfacceptance and selflove, and you know understand that some people, love cilantro and some people Hate it and neither are wrong, but nothing that you did in your estimation was nonconsensual correct. A third woman came forward a week after this january 25th paige lorenzi uh who’s a 24 yearold uh who claimed that you’d had a relationship for four months in 20120.
She corroborated some of the other story. She told page six again that hammer: u allegedly branded her pelvis with the letter, a bruised her sexually coerced her to graphic photographs of her without her consent. Again, what is your response to what she claimed about you? I disagree.
I disagree um. I think that she is entitled to her opinion and I i I did you brand her. I wouldn’t say brand no, but you know what did what did you do in relation to that allegation? There was a scenario that we talked about beforehand: uh, that we had discussed where um you know, I would basically take a little tiny point and just kind of trace the letter, a what you mean point what you mean just like the the the the tip of A small knife, a knife, yeah yeah and you literally cut a I i mean there – wasn’t even blood in the situation.
It was more like a a scrape just to sort of like enjoy the it’s it’s along the lines of couples getting their own initials tattooed on each other um. But you know it’s a bit different to a tattoo, though, isn’t it with a knife? Well, it’s less permanent. I i guarantee you. It was such a small thing that you say it sort of matter of factly.
I mean sure I’m not easily shocked, I’m a little bit shocked by that I mean yeah. It’s a strange thing to do to somebody. Isn’t it to use a knife to brand them with your? Presumably your initial for your name? Yes, I think to some. It probably sounds really strange to some.
It probably sounds like a very romantic. I don’t even remember christian gray in 50 shades. Doing that sure I mean, but you know if we look at christian gray, there’s a lot of gray in that situation, that if you turned everything black and white, we’re looking at a very different movie, then – and you know I you see parallels in what you were Like with him, you talked about a a power in balance.
He clearly utilizes that in that movie franchise against. We look at that now and yet you would say that you would say looking at the totality that none of it, certainly in his eyes was was nonconsensual. Sure um, I think when the movie came out, everyone loved it, women loved it.
When the books came out, women were first in line to buy it and people celebrated them. I think now, if we look at it through a prism of what we see now in culture, there’s a whole host of issues we could draw with those movies um, you know, were they wrong the fictional characters? Were they wrong to be engaging in what they were doing at the time when we looked at it and loved it? No, what does it say that so many women love 50 shades? Does it say that a lot of women secretly harbor the same kind of thoughts that you’ve been condemned? For actually doing I mean if the book cells represent that I wouldn’t be surprised. I think that there is a broad spectrum of sexuality and I think that for a long time, huge chunks of that spectrum were considered immoral, even illegal.
If you look at homosexuality, but you know what was the line for you was there a line? I mean if you hadn’t, been exposed in the way that you were. Would you have carried on down this path and how worse could it have got? I don’t think that the path I was on would have ever ended in. I i I would say this. There was nothing to be gained for me in having a sexual experience that my partner didn’t appreciate or enjoy, because that was also a huge sense of validation for me, making this person that I’m with feel good making this person that I’m with I mean I don’t Know if I can say this climax like these were things that made me feel good and made me feel powerful, which I desperately needed, because I didn’t know how to give them to myself.
I mean i, you know you. Your uh team have shown me a lot of the messages, for example from courtney, which, if they are I’ve, not been able to independently verify. I’m going to make that crystal clear to the viewers. But on the assumption that they’re true um, they would certainly cast a very different light on the consensuality aspect of this I mean she certainly is clearly keen to keep doing this in these exchanges with you, even whilst professing to have thought differently at the time.
Yes, do you think in all these cases, if people could have seen again, I think I’ve asked you this before, but in terms of of the total allegations, if everyone could see all of the exchanges, do you think you’d be sitting here cancelled in the way that You are no not at all, so do you feel that it’s been unfair, the way that you’ve been treated? For that reason, I a buddy of mine, always says the thing that makes life fair is that it is unfair for everyone um. So for me to sit here and say it’s not fair sure there are elements of this that don’t feel fair to me, but – and I and I’ve said this and I’m not being tried – I’m I’m not being gli about this. I’m incredibly grateful for everything that happened.
I now am able to be the father that my kids deserve. I’m able to give myself the love and validation that I was looking for from others. I’m able to be a good example to my kids.
I’m able to also be a good example to my kids about sometimes we mess up. Sometimes we fall on our face. Would you even be here for your kids and I mean alive if this hadn’t all come out when it did, was the the spiraling nature of your general drugs booze women, the kind of extreme sex stuff you were doing? Do you think that would have potentially led to you dying yeah? Really.
I think that that’s how these things go. This much is enough. Then it’s not then this much is enough.
Then it’s not then this much is enough. You’re always chasing the high yeah and it gets harder and harder to get it. It’s it’s physiology. It’s dopamine, it’s you know getting those hits in your brain and I i know the path that I was on was only going to lead in to one place and that’s death and in a way esoterically it it did.
It led to a career death. It led to an ego death. It led to all of these different kinds of deaths um, but you know, but not actual death. Thank god.
No things got a lot more serious uh. Several months later, in 2021, when e angelova who’d have that lengthy affair with you went public with accusations that you had raped her, that initiated an lapd los angeles police department, investigation, ation gloria alled, the famed feminist attorney took up her case um and she was seen Giving a prerecorded statement making allegations about you: we’ve got a clip of this on april 24th, 2017 army hammer violently raped me for over four hours, in los angeles, during which he repeatedly slapped my head against a wall bruising my face. He also committed other acts of violence against me, to which I did not consent again.
What do you? What do you feel watching that? Now it’s not easy to watch um because it represents one of the most difficult times of my life that I’ve ever been through, and it’s not easy to watch, because it also feels emblematic of how angry and hurt I made people. Was she telling the truth? Do you think no, she wasn’t about any about any of that. There were sexual encounters that we had that, were, I would say, more extreme in nature um, but the encounter that she’s talking about uh was something that we discussed and we planned.
She planned. She said to me: I will be at this starbucks at this time. I want you to follow me home, then I want you to break into my house and I want this to feel like a real scenario.
I want this to feel real and we negotiated back, and the scenario was what it was. What would be called in that sort of world consensual, nonconsent, so right, consensual, I mean a rape role. Rap implies that there is no consent, but she wanted to simulate correct. Experence, it would be a simulated, but with her knowledge, in fact, as you not only her knowledge, her planning, you know she said meet me at this starbucks and follow me home then come in the door and do this so you know this, I i had never Engaged in anything like this before so we tried it and I got to her house and the door was locked and I had to shoot her a message and be like your door’s locked.
I need you to come unlock the door and she was like, oh sorry, be right there, so it was it was. It was even awkward and and clumsy, but it was something that we tried that we never did again, but it was something she wanted to try and I wanted to be an accommodating partner. There were screenshots published by air mail magazine in which eie appeared to have told an instagram follower that she’d had consensual sex.
Her words with you allegedly writing. He is not dangerous. Yes, he didn’t rape, anyone. She also told another follow follower.
Allegedly. She was not saying that you had raped to m ma reported those conversations took place before she made her initial allegations public. Yes, when you saw that report, what did you feel about that? I wasn’t surprised.
I knew that she wasn’t raped. I knew that she didn’t consider it rape. I knew that we had a completely an entirely consensual sexual relationship from start to finish, so, to see her out there saying publicly that I did not rape her, that I never raped her, that it was all consensual and then to see a international press release where She’s crying and saying that I raped her. It wasn’t easy.
What was fascinating to me, because I know gloria r very well – is that she dropped representing her yes, because she could not get her to sign a sworn affidavit to the effect of what her claims were. Saying about you that it was nonconsensual and rape, and so on I mean that the face of it is quite telling that someone like gloria decided. This is not for me this case, because she couldn’t get her client to do his under oath.
Yes, did you think that was significant, yes, under penalty of perjury? If she signed this affidavit and it was found to be untrue, she would be in legal jeopardy. Does any part of you think that this was part of any plan that she had all along? Were you set up, or did it all go on too long for it to be a a set up like that? Oh you mean initially why she approached me. I just wonder I mean you were a hollywood star.
You know she’s come up to you, that’s how it all started. Do you think you were set up or do you think it was legitimately a genuine relationship with two likeminded souls, but then, when it soured and it sort of ended, that’s when she changed her view of what had happened? I think it’s more of that. I don’t think it was a premeditated I’m going to take this guy down before I ever meet him. I don’t think I don’t think it she was that calculated.
I think it started organically became very intense and then ended and I think those feelings of loss or anger metastasized and I left someone with very little recourse, except to do this. The repercussions from her making the rape allegations were unbelievably severe and almost instantaneous. I want to talk first of all about your wife elizabeth at the time. Obviously, you’d already commenced divorce proceedings, but when she learned about all the text, messages and the imic hannibal stuff and so on, did she find out at the same time as everybody else, or did you told her that she was aware of my relationship with feie before, But the details, the the the l details, uh, I know I don’t know how much, but I know that when I made it clear to my wife at the time that I was having an affair and that I was wanting to call off the affair, I know That effie sent a sizable portion of our messages back and forth to elizabeth really including the can ism.
I don’t know, I don’t know what I don’t know what specifically um she gave an interview: elizabeth 2 l. She said I support army through his journey. I always will uh adding. Do I want my son to become this? Would I want my daughter to say in a relationship like this? What did you think when she said that I don’t know when that interview was given um but quite quite recently, yeah? I think I think that I am proud of the place that elizabeth and I have gotten to as coparents, where yeah a lot of unfortunate and painful things happened, a most of them, my fault in the relationship she made.
You undergo psycho legal evaluation involving the custody of your kids. Yes, that that must have been an incredibly difficult thing for you to go through and you’re the father of these children. There’s no suggestion. You’d ever been anything but an excellent father to have to go through a psycho legal evaluation to determine if you’re fit to be their father, with potential consequences, very serious consequences for you and your relationship with them.
If it had gone the wrong way that that that’s a that’s a horrible experience, I see a mother doing what she felt she needed to to protect her kids um. I wasn’t necessarily worried about the evaluation, because I i in your words I I’d, never done anything to hurt my kids other than have you know an affair and pick a very dangerous person to do it with your wife was clearly very angry with you made a Number of allegations about you, but the report concluded you were not a danger children. How relieved were you when, when that was the conclusion, I would say very relieved, but also not surprised, but had you feared losing contact with your kids? I couldn’t imagine any worse as during the time of the evaluation, I was only allowed to be around the kids with supervision, a therapist supervising, that’s that’s a yeah it it it. I i remember there was a time when I was under the evaluation where my um, my daughter, came up to me and she said you know dad.
I need to go to the bathroom and uh. I looked at the therapist and I wasn’t allowed to take my daughter to the bathroom. You know we had to get someone else to do it because I couldn’t be alone with my child at the time it was tough, it was. It was a dark time.
It was a dark time for everybody. Did you? Did you ever feel like ending it all yeah seriously? Mhm. Did you come close to to trying m? What did you do? I uh I considered a permanent solution to a temporary problem and uh.
You know I i I I’ve spoken about this before I i I just decided that I i wasn’t going to be able to get through this and it was. It was too much and I decided that it would probably be better if I wasn’t here um and I just swam out into the ocean a long way we were down in the cayman island. So I swam out a long way, but then, as I was out there in the ocean, I just I thought about my kids standing uh on shore. They were on shore at the time.
No, no, but you thought about. I thought about them. Standing on shore and asking where I was and that made you come back yeah, otherwise you’re just going to keep going until. Inevitably you would have drowned.
I mean it wasn’t a great plan, you know um, but I was desperate and I wasn’t thinking clearly I mean it’s. It’s horrendous that you’d reached that point for any human being yeah the lowest moment of your life. I hope so yeah. Your career was basically immediately cancelled.
You were dropped by your talent agency, william morris. You left two other projects, chotgun wedding with jennifer lopez and the paramount series the office uh, which we talked about about the making of the godfather um. You were not able to work. You had no income at one stage, you were reported to have been acting as some kind of state agent in came us toate end meet.
Is that true yep? That was the only way you could make money yeah, so your career, just basically was just bang done. Yes, when that was happening was it. It was all obviously around the time of ary, weinstein and uh, the me2 movement and the up movement, and so on. Did you think you were just going to be another star chucked on this bombfire and there would be no way back or what what did you think I mean I was I i was.
I was thrown into this fire that was burning its way through the industry. Um in some ways, the genesis of the movement is pivotal and vital and healthy um. I think what it started to become is not uh.
It became a witch hunt. It felt like where you know people were getting thrown into this fire and sometimes by people who were throwing them into the fire, with good intentions and sometimes by people who were throwing people into the fire to save themselves. But I don’t think they realized that every single person who was thrown into the fire was just fuel for the fire and the fire was just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger until it burned everybody.
For for someone who, by your own admission the day before all this happened or the morning of the first instagram leak, felt you’re untouchable and heading to hollywood, superstar and potentially that’s a pretty extraordinary turn of events that literally within three months, you’re done. It was a massive swing of a pendulum yeah. You I mean you, you literally did become untouchable for different reasons. Yeah people wouldn’t touch you with a bge bow.
Yes, I i couldn’t get jobs outside of hollywood. You know I applied for multiple jobs while living in the c island app. What uh I applied to be a time share salesman um I applied to be a drama teacher um.
I applied to be a real estate agent, um, and you know each time the letter we got back from the government, an official c manan government letter said, do due to issues of character. We do not think it is in the best interests of the community. For this person to be admitted to the cayman islands, the the day those instagram leaks, occurred. How rich were you at the time um? I wouldn’t say that I was sitting on a lot of money um.
I would say that I was incredibly financially irresponsible um. What were your worth? Would you guess I don’t? I mean it? We owned a house in los angeles um. I had big paychecks coming through, but you know I didn’t pay cash for my house. I had a mortgage uh and even though I had these big checks coming through, I had a big, extravagant lifestyle and I had you know business manager being like you cannot spend this much money, and you know your wife cannot spend this much money.
So we had big checks coming through, but in a way I was also living paycheck to paycheck cuz. You were the you know: you’re you’re, from the the famous uh hammer oil family, your greatgrandfather was arman hammer was oil tycoon. There were reports that you were cut off from any inheritance from the family oil fortune.
Is that true yeah? I haven’t received any inheritance or anything like that. What could that have been? If, if this hadn’t happened to you, there was a world in which my life could have looked very differently. There was a world in which I you know would have finished, high school and then gone to college and then gotten an mba and then gone to work with my dad and had job security for the rest of my life and probably never done anything exciting uh.
But it would have been dependable and I would have been okay and I chose at an early age that that just wasn’t the life for me. You’re aunt, casey, uh came forward and publicly said she wasn’t surprised about the allegations about you, because the family had a history of abuse. Let’s take a look at what she said.
We are the true definition of dysfunctional and it’s again: threats of um bodily harm or uh retribution or disownment. I mean there was always this if you embarrass or do anything outside the family, and we were always photographed and surveillance. You know the cameras is by our own family. It was like they were watching every move we made so when the allegations against army hammer were made public.
Did you say, of course this? Is this family? How did you process it? I wasn’t surprised and the reason I say that is because what I experienced growing up was so familiar and it’s not something tamarind that you just wake up one day and decide to become a monster. It’s a learned. Behavior now casey claimed that her father, who was your grandfather, sexually abused her as a child and killed a man or gambling debt um. She also uh revealed the armond who you were named after was a his name.
U said that, he sorry. She also said that armon, who you named after was a monster of psychological warfare who threatened sexual violence on great grandmother, um and, as a result of all this, you then came forward and said a pastor, sexually abused you when you were 13 and that may have Sparked the whole thing with bdsm and so on. Do you think there’s any truth to what she was saying that that there’s something almost genetic about this? It was just a lot of stuff in the family of sexual abuse going on and that when you yourself were subjected to it this past and I’ll come to that in a moment, but it all just was a a potent toxic cocktail. I don’t know because it goes to sort of like the nature, verse nurture argument.
I I can’t speak to what casey’s childhood was like. Do you? Is she still alive? I’m assuming she is. You don’t have any relationship with her.
I I I’ve never had a relationship with my aunt. I’ve never been with my aunt alone, oneonone in my entire life. So when she was on a documentary talking about me, it was it was. It was surprising I didn’t.
I didn’t understand how she became an authority on me or my behaviors um. I think that you know in my family’s history. Were there dysfunctional people absolutely in anyone’s family history? There are dysfunctional people. Does that mean it necessarily is going to directly translate into my life? Maybe in some ways is it my fault that there are dysfunctional patterns in my history or family history? No, that’s not my fault, but it is my responsibility and if I don’t want to pass that down to my children, I have to turn around and face that and say.
Okay, I need to do the work on this. The incident with this pastor, when you were 13, what actually happened then um. There was a a pastor in the church that we went to who took an interest in me and um.
You know the the words we now know to use is. I was groomed by this pastor and then sexually abused in what way uh in all the unpleasant ways did he rape you? No, I was never raped, but it was um. I was physical, sexual abuse. Yes, yeah.
Do you remember being traumatized by that yeah yeah and do you think there’s a link between that and then your proclivity for quite extreme sexual behavior? You know, I i I don’t know is the short answer for that uh ian it it would screw anybody up. I mean there’s question For sure I mean there there’s definitely ramifications for childhood sexual abuse. Um do I think that being introduced to sex in a way where I was completely out of control led to me wanting to be in control in a sexual relationship? Sure I i that logically makes sense to me I mean I’m not a sex therapist, but that makes sense to me. Do I also think that people like what they like and maybe that can exist independent of trauma yeah.
I think that that exists too. I think again, there’s probably some sort of overlap there. A year ago, the hollywood reporter suddenly announced a prosecutors in the lapd uh, los angeles county, said that you would not face criminal charges in the case involving fe.
The la district attorney said due to the complexity of the relationship and inability to prove pro a nonconsensual forcable sexual encounter were unable to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, and you said I’m very grateful to the da for conducting a thorough investigation and coming to The conclusion I’ve stood by this entire time that no crime was committed. I look forward to being beginning what will be a long, difficult process of putting my life back together. Now that my name has been cleared um I mean that was a time when, if the lapd could have nailed you that they would have been desperate to do so. Yes, there was a lot of allegations being made about famous people, but not much of it was leading to actual convictions in a court room um.
But while that investigation going over two and a half years, you must have considered the possibility of potentially being charged and potentially being convicted and maybe going to jail. I mean that was a fear. It was a fear. I i think you never know how those things are going to go and that’s what my attorneys kept saying to me over and over and over, and I would say I didn’t rape anybody I didn’t do this.
This is, this is provably untrue and they would say you can’t say anything because you never know how this is going to go, and I think that was a big part of why I stayed silent for so long partially, because I wanted to make sure that when I did finally say something I wasn’t leading with anger at this situation. This is a very complicated situation and there are people who have been in this situation where they were violently attacked or abused or raped, and that is a massive issue that we are dealing with. In this situation, I knew that it wasn’t true, but my lawyers were saying: if you go out there and say anything that could be the thing that tips the scale.
And yes, we have all the evidence that we’re looking at that shows that this was a consensual relationship. But you never know what’ll happen you might get charged and if you get charged you’re going to court and if you go to court, you never know what a jury is going to do. It’s scary, you feel, like your life, is in jeopardy.
How relieved were when that news broke? I remember exactly where I was when that call came in. Where were you I was standing in an airport. I was standing in an airport uh.
I was in new york in an airport and I was about to fly over to uh a friend of mine’s wedding, and I remember I was standing in the airport and that call came through and I i couldn’t even help myself. I i yelled out loud. I the middle of thep in the middle of the airport. I was so relieved d that it finally felt like this chapter of my life was done in january 2024.
So about 6 months later, effie didn’t just double down kind of trebled down um. She penned an essay for medium, which is entitled my traumatizing experience with my rapist army hammer and she then went into details calling you manipulative psychopath that you’d been so cruel, you’d, severely damaged and crushed her. You raped and beat um.
She became more and more scared of you. I explained I felt disassociated overwhelmed with shame and self blame. Frequently nauseous began self haring since he assaulted me. I i couldn’t see him anymore um and she quoted you as saying I need to rape.
You again remember when you were on the floor and I walked away and grabbed a knife. You were crying on the floor and I left you down a pile of tears, grabbed a knife and held it to your throat and raped you more. Everything else seemed boring. You crying and screaming me standing over you, I felt like a god.
I mean pretty de devastating to read that the quotes that she ascribed to you were they true. I don’t remember saying those things. I know that they could be true.
I know that we had the encounter that she had planned and I know that we spoke about it afterwards. I don’t know that those were the words that we used, but you could, you could have said it it’s the kind of language you were using with her. It it in the context of a relationship like that that would be the language that you use yeah, but again your position would be. This was roleplay, fantasy, correct and one that she was fully on board with correct.
Why would someone who spent so long with you and you’ve explained this to to a degree, but were you surprised that, even when the lapd didn’t lead to any charges being made and the da’s office dropped the case, were you surprised that she then did this piece As I say, you’re kind of trebling down on what she’d said at this point. Nothing really surprises me with her. Do you think she? Actually? I might have asked you this early bit. Do you think she actually believes this at this stage? I think that there’s a a legitimate possibility that she’s convinced herself that this is true, but at the same time I don’t know, what’s going on with her she’s also spent the last year on social media, saying that she wants my 99yearold daughter to be raped.
So I don’t think that we’re dealing with really yeah – oh yeah, oh yeah, that’s horrific. I know I know and she’s putting this out there on her platform. Have.
Has she tried to contact you? Well, I I’m i. I have blocked every single avenue of communication, so I mean, through lawyers, there’s been a lot of communication through lawyers of her asking for money and in in return for her silence, and you know extortionate am money, oh millions and millions of dollars like what millions and Millions of dollars – 10 million – not not quite that much but yeah – a lot of money that I don’t have you know and by the way, even if I did have it, I’m not sure I would give it to her. But do you think money is her main incentive now from you? If I’m going to go off of communications between my lawyer and her lawyers? Yes, yes, you entered a a 12step program after you reached rock bottom uh.
What did that do for you? It gave me a new life. It gave me a sense of freedom. It gave me a sense of selfesteem that I’d been hungry for my whole life.
It allowed me to be the father that my kids deserve. It allowed me to be the friend that I want to be to people it it. It’s the it’s. The best thing that ever happened to me outside of having my.
Do you ever drink alcohol? Now? No, I i have no interest. When was the last time, you had a drink, uh three and a half years ago, and no drugs presumably mm it’s a very clean, very different life yeah and a better life, sometimes a more painful life, sometimes a more stressful life, because I have to now feel All of these things that I was running from before, but ultimately a better life. Have you been able to have relationships? Yeah yeah I mean I don’t want to be puan, but the sex side of things is that very different via in the sense that, like everything else in my life, there is a higher degree of control and nothing feels out of control. For me, nothing feels wild.
For me everything feels more balanced and healthy and there isn’t a little devil on your shoulder missing the cannibalism. Well, it’s hard to miss something that you’ve never done but uh. You know what I mean yeah, I i mean there’s always going to be a devil on our shoulders.
It’s just about how much bandwidth you give him and right now, I’m in a place where he’s still there, but he gets very little bandwidth. There were reports that robert downey jr paid for you to go to rehab. Is that right uh? No, he did not. He did not pay for me to go to re.
Has he been supportive to uh? I would say that, yes, he he has. You don’t seem convinced well that was well reported. Is that really not the case? I don’t I don’t. I don’t want to bring anyone else into my situation.
Uh. There are a number of people who have been extremely helpful and I’m incredibly grateful. Is he one of them? Yes, in what way, then, in the way where anyone in hollywood, who suffers from any sort of addiction issues, whether it be alcohol or process, addiction or drugs, decides to get sober? That guy will find you and he will help you it’s.
What was the best advice he gave? You sit down, shut up, everything’s, going to be okay, simple, as that yeah did you hear from leo decabo uh, you started with him, didn’t didn’t they or julia roberts? What do you feel about the fact they didn’t contact you? Having started movies with you, I try not to think about the people who didn’t contact me. I try to focus on the people who did who showed their support, which other notable people did actually reach out to you and help a few. A few give me some names you um luca guadino has also been vocally supportive, which is something that I could not appreciate more um, but at the same time, I’m also well aware that it is a precarious situation right now and anyone vocalizes support comes under fire And I understand that my situation was inflammatory and anyone who gets too close might also light on fire, given what he went through has johnny deb been in touch. You start with him in the lone ranger uh we’ve communicated a few times yeah how yeah um phone facetime shared cannibal text, yeah yeah, oh yeah pointers, you know, but has he been helpful because he’s been through a very you know: traumatic legal battle himself, which he Ended up, I didn’t bring this to him.
He didn’t bring his to me. It was more of a social call. How are you good to see you glad you’re still alive? You know that kind of thing. Mickey r once said to me when he was in the wilderness in hollywood before the wrestler brought him back yeah that the stench of death around someone in hollywood, when things are bad, can be seen as contagious and that’s why people avoid you.
They don’t want to catch the failure or cancellation virus. Do you does that resonate with you I’ll tell a story that I just I just told recently to someone. There was a guy and I i don’t want to get too specific, but there was a guy named clark who very early on in my situation a couple months in I was just starting to get sober. I was complaining to this guy clark and uh.
I was like, I can’t believe all of these people, like people are sending me private emails saying I know this. Isn’t you like this is crazy, who this guy, like I’ve known you for years, this guy who they’re talking about like it’s? Just not you and I was like, why are you sending me emails say something about this like? Why is everyone saying to me directly like we know this isn’t real, say it publicly? Like help me and clark looked at me, and he said you know what kind of friend are you. I said: what are you talking about? I’m I’m a great friend.
I would do anything for my friends literally anything for my friends. That’s the kind of friend I am and he goes yeah you think you’re such a good friend and I go. I know I’m a good friend.
He goes really. You set your house on fire and your house is burning to the ground and now what you want? Your friends to run into a burning house with you what happens to your friends when they run into a burning house, and I said they would get burned. He said: do you want your friends to get burned? I said no, he said if you were a good friend.
What would you want for your friends, and I said I would want my friends to stay as far away from the fire as possible and he reached over and he patted my leg and he said ow you’re thinking like a good friend and he walked away see. I don’t agree with him: no, no, okay! I would never forget the ones who ran towards the fire. Oh and I and I never and I never would they would be my proper friends by the way I never will forget the ones who ran the other way from the fire.
Yes h, not so much correct, but there’s a difference between me appreciating and cele ating. The ones who ran into the fire on their own val and me expecting or asking anyone to, but I i just think all these situations, I talked to kevin spacy, um, very studio. You know and uh. I think anyone who’s been through these things.
It’s unbelievably traumatic for the person in your position and neither of you sat here and claimed to be angelic by any means, but neither of you have been convicted of any crimes. And yet you both got unceremoniously cancelled and I do think you I’ve been through not as bad things, but I’ve been through ups and downs in my career. I never forget the people that contacted me, but I also I never forget or really forgive the ones who run away, who were in touch all the time and then the moment the wind blows the wrong way they’re out of dodge.
I don’t forget that I bet you’re the same y and I mean you even had people who came to your defense without doing anything on their own who suffered consequences from that. Yes and it’s yeah, I mean sharon osor. My good friend, that’s, who I’m thinking lost, lost her belov job on american television because she said she asked the had the audacity to ask what had I said.
That was racist answer nothing. It was absolutely unbelievable. Yeah um! I want to play a clip from kevin.
Actually, from the interview he gave me, this is about the whole me too thing we’ve touched on this earlier. I want to see what you think of. Do you think the pendulum post me to you were caught up in that first wave that hysterical first wave that saw many people taken down, but do you think it’s gone too far? Well, I i I could say yes and not just in my particular case.
There have been others that I feel you know they may have been inappropriate. They may have done something that they wish they hadn’t done, but I i didn’t think that what it was and maybe what they even admitted to was so heinous that they should have lost their career or their ability to to make their livelihood um. I think that is that is too far um, but I also think we have to be mind ful, that it doesn’t swing back too far in the other direction.
What do you think of that? I mean I i I agree with him. I i I think the genesis and origin of this movement was necessary for a long long time. People in power were in positions to abuse it with no recourse and no fallout, and that’s not okay.
I think that the pendulum had swung so far in that direction. That it’s probably expected that there’ be a bit of an overcorrection. Have we lost as a society the ability to forgive people who genuinely atone for what they did? Yes, uh and not allowed them a second chance. It seems to me both you and kevin, having gone through a lot of legal stuff and come out without any conviction.
You ought to be entitled to come back and yet seems to be no mechanism post me to for anyone to better do that. It’s like you’re. Almost you know you’re tainted in a way that seems to me to be unfair because you weren’t convicted of any crime and a lot of it is he said she said he said he said whatever, but if there’s no actual criminal conviction, why are you not allowed To come back, do you feel that, yes, what’s your message to hollywood producers? Who who may be thinking you know what I know I know they dropped the thing, but I can’t touch him. I think that’s a selffulfilling prophecy um, you know if they were smart, they could get guys like twotime academy, awardwinning actor, kevin spacy for probably pretty cheap right now for a good project and probably a better actor, and I suspect you would be too.
I would emotional range you’ve had to go through, for real would probably enhance your ability as an actor. I think that there is an access to myself and to my emotions that would have been difficult for me to get to. If I spent my entire life numbing out my emotions, there’s a kind of irony. Isn’t there that the social network made you very famous huge hit movie about the beginnings of facebook and social media? Had a big part in ruining your career? You know, army the cannibal became the kind of goto twitter headline for people um.
I hadn’t actually thought about that. That’s very funny! It is it’s not funny for you, but it is it’s an irony. Isn’t it in a sort of like gallows, humor kind of way.
You know that’s the thing it it I’m at a point now, where I’ve realized the best way to get through through these difficult times is to cry when you need to and then to laugh when you need to, and you’ve done both today yeah as we head Full emotional gamut here well as we head towards the end of the interview: how how do you feel about the conversation we’ve had I’m very happy with it. It feels measured. It feels fair. It feels factually based um.
It is cold enough in here to store meat, but other than that it’s been a good conversation. I don’t like to sweat on tv, yeah, um, fair, you’re, still living in the cayman islands. Do you have a job at the moment? Um, I i I do I i started working with a friend of mine on a project that he’s working on um, a film project, tv or well. This one is not in the entertainment world uh, but I have also written a script uh with a good friend of mine that is pretty autobiographical and it’s something that we want to shoot and direct uh in a roundabout way yeah.
How does it end? Well, I can’t tell you now you got to watch it. Does it end? I mean you know the classic jerry brock, a don sson movie cocktail. Is you start with setting up the characters? They have a massive pits moment? Then they have redemption and glory. That’s that’s the recipe of every hit movie yeah.
I would say that is very much the american model of films. This is a much more sort of european styled film. It’s not going to end with you swimming out to the ocean.
No, no you’re kids are with you in the carolin. Do you share custody with with your? I do your wife I mean: do you have much of an income at the moment or not um, not no, not very much, and it’s? What is that like for someone who had so much money and flash it around so much and could squander it to your heart’s content? What’s it like to actually have very little money, I don’t know that you will believe me and I’m pretty sure that they won’t, but it’s very liberating. Really, it’s very freeing. Well, I guess nobody asks you for apart from the exes you’ve made allegations just lawyers right yeah, but you know one of the things of fame.
Is everybody wants a piece of the action if there’s no action of a piece of they all disappear again? Well, it’s also it’s it’s. When you give up all of the things that you think define who you are or make you what you are, and you no longer have those things, it forces you to leave the external world and to go internal and to actually find out who you are and What you are, and money has very little to do with that, how old are your kids now, my daughter’s nine and my son is seven, so I i have a 12yearold daughter and she’s been heavily into google for some time when your kids tap your name into Google, inevitably they’re, going to see the word cannibal. Have you had that conversation? Have you tried to explain that part of it the the infamous headline part of it? No uh, it’s not the time. Yet.
I think that would be introducing the idea of sexuality to kids, who are too young to be introduced. That are you dreading, that moment of having to yeah very tough conversation to have, but one you probably have to because they’re going to find out. Yes again, such is the nature of the internet.
It’s a scary idea, but an inevitable one. Are you a much better father now, because of all this, you got much more time with them. I guess when I’m in town, I take them to school every day. I pick them up from school every day.
I am with them throughout the rest of the day and then I drop them off to their mom’s house at night every single day. What do they think army hammer does uh? Well, they know that I was an actor m, was an actor because they’ve seen the age, appropriate films that I’ve done m or was m yeah less opportunity, but am um, but more than anything, they just know me as dad, which is all I care about army. Thank you for being so open and honest with me sure thank for having me.
I think that um I don’t understand how anyone could listen to this or watch this and not think at the very least you ought to be given another chance. I i don’t understand why you would conclude that from everything I’ve read up about your story. I think it’s one of those things where you were caught up in a sort of salem which trial along with a lot of people, some of whom thoroughly deserve their come. Ups and to a degree by your own admission, you probably did deserve a correction in your life and a bit of a comeuppence.
I’m not sure you deserved what happened to you. It’s so complete. The cancellation took everything away from you and I’m not entirely sure why uh? I think it was unfair, but I appreciate you being so candid.
I wish you all the very best. I hope someone is watching this and thinking you know what ryan can’t do them all. Like I said you can get them for cheap these days, they’re still looking for james bond, you know that good to see you.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
